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Guest Interview With Blair Halver
Never Revealed Before ...
The $Million Dollar$ Real Estate Coaching Funnel That Landed Blair into the 2 Comma Club
 
 
                                   Watch the video to find out more...
Transcript

Yassin:
Hey, Hey, Hey, it's Yassin Shaar with our second interview, in the series highlighting some of the superstars in our industry. And today I have the pleasure of talking to Blair Halver on the show. Blair, how are you doing buddy? Good. How's it going, man?

Blair:
Thanks for having me.

Yassin:
Well, I'm excited for this conversation. Blair is a real estate expert, with specialty in creative financing and alternative deal structures. He does a lot of marketing as well. he's a savvy, direct response marketer. and recently he was given the two comma club award at funnel hacking live, for generating over a million dollars from one single funnel. so he's a one of the few in the industry who got the award. Blair, welcome to the show. I'm excited to have you on.

Blair:
Yeah, thanks man. Glad to be here. Sweet. So, Blair, before our call I was like snooping around, you know, digging like, Hey, where's this million dollar funnel? because as I said, you know, as we were talking before we started here, from the days you had like deal bot, which is a Lead generation agency and I went to the website, there's nothing happening there. So it's like, where's this funnel? so then I, you know, after about an hour of digging, it's like, maybe I found it. I didn't know about. You've got some very interesting stuff going on. and I would say very unique. I came across an offer that's very unique and the funnel that you've got built about how you do the pre-selling and, and all of that. it's very interesting stuff and I don't see a lot of people doing it in this space, so no wonder why you made it to the, to the two comma club. And congratulations by the way. Thanks. I thought you were about to call it the cool kids club.

Yassin:
It is the cool, cool kids club because you know, not a lot of people, a lot of people talk big game. people actually do it. so you're not just like a guru, but you're actually in the trenches every day doing deals and helping your students. And I think that's the, great combination that you bring to the table and which sets you apart. so why don't you like, give us a quick overview of your business model and what kind of offers you've got running right now on your real estate coaching side or service.

Blair:
Yeah, so we, for about for a little over a year now, we've been selling, our main program is just a $5,800 coaching program, which is essentially prerecorded training materials that they get lifetime access to that, and then private Facebook group and then weekly group Q&A calls. This is the basic Sam ovens up-level model, if you're familiar with that. And of course, yep. so a webinar to strategy session, sell them into the program, that sort of thing. You know, we started out doing just like just exactly what Sam does. We modeled him, I went through his upper level course and that got us started. But then what we found is you gotta tweak that for whatever industry you're in, especially real estate investing. So, you know, we tweaked his model, to make it work better for what we were doing. And the biggest thing was like for us was adding more friction to the funnel before they get on the phone call. Interesting, isn't it? Yeah. And most of the people, they want to go the other way. They want to say, let me just get on phone with as many people as I can. Problem we were running into is you just, you burn out your sales team talking to people who can't afford your thing and don't even know what it is and all that sort of thing. You know,

Yassin:
I actually, one of the questions I wanted to ask you like digging around, I didn't see a lot of opt-ins, like where you just collect an email, almost always the call to action on the webinar you do, but like down the funnel, it's always like an application. So I was wondering why you don't like push for getting that opt in. So one of the funnels that I found, that you've got running, for quite a while now, it's a multipage pre-sale and like there is no opt in, so there's like application after seven and we'll get to talk about this funnel. so that's interesting. That's interesting. So why don't we talk about the offer a little bit? I want to start with the offer, and then go into the funnel and the messaging and if that's okay with you.

Blair:
Yeah, yeah. And just know that, I think just like anybody else out there who's doing this business, you know, you're pivoting all the time, like this is all just multiple guess test, right? So we're just figuring out any new tests. Yeah. So that being said, you know, all this stuff is in flux, but I'll share with you what's been working for us the most reliably. And that offer is what I just described, is that coaching program. And essentially we positioned it as a business in a box here. Just model exactly what I'm doing in my own house business. And go ahead. No, sorry, go ahead. Yeah, no, no. I was just saying, you know, model exactly what I'm doing and you'll get the same results I'm getting, which is, you know, few deals a month, you know, working five hours a week. I got everything delegated, automated, all that stuff.

Yassin:
Yeah. So, so that's the main promise, you lead with, in your offer is that you could do virtual wholesaling, right? In obscure markets, whatever the deals are. you're not limited to the geo, or the location you're in. and you also, so there's a couple of claims, interesting claims in there, right? So you tie up the virtual wholesaling with like delegating. And what I found most interesting about your offer is you give them the leads.

Blair:
so tell me a little bit about that. So that actually is our new offer that we've just been testing maybe, I don't know, six to eight weeks and it's actually, you know, we kind of look at it as version two of our main program. Mmm. But, so that one's a little different. You know, you mentioned that multipage presale site, that's a relatively new funnel. That's not our webinar to strategy call, but the hook in the, in the webinar thing was like, how to do five deals a month in five hours a week, you know, and that sort of thing. That was the big promise right? Now with the multipage presale site that you see, you know, the hook is basically how do we do not just virtual wholesaling, you know, people have heard of that and you know, our buddy Chris Chico, I feel like he's the one that coined that term.

Blair:
Right. you know, but in my mind, virtual wholesaling is when you pick like one or two select remote markets and you just do wholesaling into those specific markets. What we're doing now is basically like nationwide wholesaling. So we just blanket, well it's basically nationwide, but we target certain States where the laws are more favorable for what we want to do. So yeah, you get deals from anywhere. Now the, you know, the, you know, the upside to that is, you know, your cost per deal goes way down. But the flip side, the downside is you've gotta be ready to do a deal wherever the deal comes up. So it's a little bit different model. Yeah. So, so that's interesting that you do that. because you said people are paying 5,800$, are you factoring in the marketing costs into that or is that like excluded?

Blair:
So the new offer that you're talking about is actually 7,500$ and it's a 90 day program. We call it our 90 day apprentice. Okay. So we send them 90 leads in 90 days, we guide them and coach them and train them how to work those deals all the way through to payday. Okay. And we'll even guarantee that they get a deal. Right? So there's a deal guarantee. So that's one of the aspects I want to dig into. Yeah. Yeah. But, but so you give them the leads and you're paying for the marketing. Yeah. From the 7,500$ ?. Yup. Oh wow. Okay. And how's it working out so far? Great. Actually, this version of our program, we're getting better client results, more profitability for us.

Blair:
We like it a lot better. Profitability ? Are you sharing in the deal or are you keeping everything for them? So we do, we tell them upfront, this is a deal split scenario. So any deals that you get from our leads, we get half. However, we're gonna refund your $7,500 fee out of our half of the deals you do before we take any of this. Beautiful, makes total sense. Deal guarantee, risk reversal. And, you know, we don't call it a deposit, we call it a fee, but you know, they might look at it like it's a $7,500 deposit that they're going to get back once they start doing deals. So it kinda gets over another little hurdle in their mind. But we're actually not counting on any of the profits from the deals. Like that'll be gravy to us. you know, we want to just make sure we're going in that, you know, the client gets success, number one, and number two, we can be profitable even if they never do it.

Yassin:
You know what I mean? Okay. Because your cost per lead that you're generating, you've got probably like a dialed in process where your cost per lead is quite relatively low. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. And why did you, iterates on your offer and add, like we'll give you the leads ? I mean, maybe I'm asking a very obvious question here, but what triggered this iteration?

Blair:
So with the first version of our offer, which we refer to as pipeline, that was the $5,800 coaching program or whatever, we would basically just show them how to do everything themselves and then we would rely on them to go do it. What we've found is with, as with any other, you know, coaching program or how to training program, you know, there's a small percentage of people who are actually going to go do the work and actually get results. but most people are just never going to do anything with it, right? So what my partner, Jeff and I were thinking is, okay, how could we increased client results? We feel like that, philosophically, our goal should be to get them results. And if we can do that, it makes a better product, which is then easier to sell into the marketplace and we get more sales, right?

Blair:
So, but it starts with making a better product. And in our mind, the best product is the one that actually gets them results. Not necessarily teaches them the most, it gets them results, right? So what we ended up doing, we took our old pipeline system and we still sell that every now and then. And that's like the whole full on business in a box. I used the metaphor of this. This is like the Mac daddy Cadillac over here with all the bells and whistles. This new program we call apprentice is like the strip down drag racer. Like we just do exactly the things that they need to do to move the needle and get deals and we're going to give you the leads to do it. So you've got no excuse to not get results. Well, let's say you even do everything we tell you to do, even if you just do it half as well as you're supposed to and you still don't get a deal. We'll literally assign one of our deals over to you as our deal guarantee.

Yassin:
Beautiful. And can you just, run quick the deliverables of the program. So you sell it for 7,500$ , you give them 90 leads, it's for 90 days. What else are they getting?

Blair:
Yeah. So weekly calls with our acquisitions team. We have our own in house acquisitions for our company. You're not doing the calls yourself? You've got your team doing it. That's the plan. I'm still doing them now because I want to make sure these people like, you know, like I said, this is a relatively new program. Yeah. Beta program. So I'm like fully invested in this thing. But yeah the plan is to, and that's the way we pitch it is like look you're going to be working directly with our inhouse acquisitions team. They're the ones doing the deals. Like I've delegated that a long time ago. Right. So you want to talk to them anyway and I'll come on and be the guru if you want, that sort of thing. So they get those weekly calls, the private Facebook group and then Voxer support. If they got, you know, something urgent they can reach out to our acquisitions team and let's say they need, you know, some help with a seller on the phone. Cause you know, all our deals are done by phone with the sellers. We will actually have our acquisitions team get on the phone with their seller, with them on the phone. We can't do it for them, but we can do it with them and we can talk to their seller to help get the deal. Okay.

Yassin:
That's killer. Killer. Wow. This is beautiful. so you got the leads ,weekly support, a group coaching call ,the Facebook group, and you've got training of course, the membership side, and you've got the Voxer for emergencies. So how do you set the boundaries? so they don't feel like you're their new friend and they're like texting you like all the day and you know, and like SMS terrorism, right? just like texting you all the time. So how do you draw the boundaries?

Blair:
Yeah, so I try to encourage clients in the program to get support first during the Q&A calls, the weekly calls. That's the best place to get support. And this is just how I explain it to them. The second best is the Facebook group. Third best, if it's something urgent or super private, is voxer, right? But sometimes clients will ask me questions by Voxer and I'll just have them go post it in the Facebook group. The reason being is because if I just answered their question there, they're the only ones getting the benefit of that question. I want the whole group to benefit of any, you know, thing that I'm saying, right? So that everybody can benefit not just this one person. So I just encourage them to go post it in the Facebook group.

Yassin:
It makes total sense. and so is this the offer that you got like, the award for, or like, it's a new iteration, but is this like the same core offer that you have?

Blair:
This is a new one. This'll be my, you know, hopefully this time next I'll have a third award on the wall for this new one. And I look at those, right? You've got two on there.

Yassin:
The offer that made you a million ?

Blair:
that's the $5,800 pipeline program. The business in a box thing.

Yassin:
Okay. So you've upgraded this to, what is it right now, the apprentice. Do you think this is going to just like get you to multiply those earnings?

Blair:
Yeah. Yeah. And partly, the reason I think that is because like, you know, when our sales guys get on the phone, like somebody books a strategy call with us under the old funnel and they're thinking pipeline program, pipeline program. Then they get on the phone and one of our sales guys will say, you know, we've got the pipeline program, but we also got this new thing. And man, the majority of the time the people want this new thing more than the old thing. You see what I mean?

Yassin:
Beautiful. It makes sense. it's a really an irresistible offer. So before I move on to the funnel , one other thing that's really unique about your offer is your guarantee. So tell me a little bit about that. What is the guarantee and how did you come up with this guarantee? And I mean, it's a big risk to say the least. So, so tell me a little bit about that.

Blair:
Well, I think the deal guarantee, it just came out of my realization that we need to have, you know, like you just said, an irresistible offer, like something that like, they'd just be crazy not to go for it. Right. And of course, as you know, one of the biggest elements to any of those irresistible offers is the risk reversal, right? So I was thinking, okay, how can we do this? Well, meanwhile, while I'm thinking about all this, I'm looking over at our house business, we've got, I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging here, but we've got deals coming out of our ears over here, right? if ever we had to fulfill on the guarantee, we'd just pull a deal out of our inventory and assign it over to them. You see what I mean? So to us it wasn't a big risk because we're still doing deals ourselves. You know what I mean? is this then you guarantee, was it part of the old offer? It's new.

Blair:
Okay. you said you've been only running this for six to eight weeks, so you probably haven't had to do or to deliver-fulfill on that guarantee, correct? Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, and by the way, just can you re-iterate what is a guarantee?

Blair:
yeah. So in the agreement, the guarantee is, if you have made a good faith effort to do everything we show you how to do, in other words, you're engaging the leads that we send to you and using the scripts and all that sort of thing. If you don't get at least one deal signed up, either a purchase contract or at least option signed up with a seller, we assign one of our deals over to you as if you had gotten it yourself. Now to qualify for that, they have to show evidence that they talked to at least 45 of the 90 seller leads that we sent to them. And they have to show handwritten notes on the lead sheets that we give them, which has the script and everything else, right? So they've got to show they did the work and if they did the work and they don't get a deal, it's either because we failed or they just sucked so bad at this.

Blair:
They should not be in this business at all. But here's a parting gift. Here's one of our deals that you can go run with. Is that mentioned in the contract, like those specifics?. Okay. Because a lot of times, right? they do a conditional guarantee, you know, and you need to like fight it out, right? Especially if you're using a merchant account, and you know, it might bring some of these issues. have you guys like have contingency in place for these kind of situations? Yeah. So the contract actually gives us an option to either assign a deal over to them or just refund their initial fee. Okay. Makes sense. And I am imagining that if we ever got to that point and we didn't have a deal and we didn't want to refund them for whatever reason, we could do some other kind of workout with them where we just bonus them some other training or something or lead service for a few months for free.

Blair:
And then they sign a thing that, you know, releases us or whatever. Makes some sense. I'm in a coffee shop. Is the noise too loud? And it's all right. It's good that you're muting yourself though. Okay. Okay, cool. So, but so one thing you just said, cause you're asking these questions like, you know, what if this happens, how are you doing this? How are you able to fulfill on that? You know, to me that tells me I'm on the right track because when you look at like, okay, what kind of risk reversal or guarantee can you make? the best kind that you can make is one that makes your competitors not saying you're a competitor, but that makes other people in the business say, Oh man, how the crap are they doing that? Right?

Yassin:
Like that's what they will says. So the offers we've got running right now, and we've got like, you know, anywhere from two thousand to sixty thousand dollar offers running right now, our guarantees we'll keep working with you until you get the promised result.

Blair:
So that was our guarantee on our first program. did you know what this uptick and so you don't have to share specific numbers, but with this new offer, are you seeing like higher conversions, more people saying yes on these strategy sessions than before? Yes. Like significant jump, like 20, 50, 100% jump ? I mean, I don't have the numbers, but it's just a lot easier sale than it was before. You know what I mean? Okay. It's 7,500, are you offering payment plans? We do have a payment plan. I'm not sure that we've actually put anybody into it yet. Okay. So it's 7500$ upfront. Okay. Yeah. And you know my partner and I, we go back and forth on that and it's kinda like, okay, on one side, okay if we offer the payment plan, we get more people in, we can help more people and you know, make more money.

Blair:
But the other side of that is look, if they can't put 7,500$ together upfront, it's kind of a litmus test to tell whether you know, how committed they are, how resourceful they are, not just do they have the money. But like I signed up a guy a couple of nights ago, he didn't have the money for the full 7,500, I did not offer the payment plan and he went and found the money. Like he just went and got a 0% credit card. He's like, all right, let's do this. so they'll find the money if they really want to do it. And then they're at that point where they've passed the point of no return in their own mind. And that's what it took for me to get started in the business. So it sounds ruthless to say I want to do that to them, but I know that's what they need. You know what I mean?

Yassin:
Makes sense. And do you have like a criteria you qualify for or do you accept like, I mean, you've got like an open qualification, right? you don't hard qualify people, because like, so for some of our programs, that we've got running, we tend to target more people who will have done at least one deal. So, in a lot of our offers, especially the higher ticket ones because we not necessarily guarantee results, but we keep working with you until you get the result. So there's a lot of risk on us, right? So it's very important for us that you have experience and someone who closed a deal, they must have went through so many things to get that deal versus someone who hasn't closed a first deal. Right. so tell me a little bit about the qualification you look for in the applicants ?

Blair:
for a long time we thought that we really only want to be selling people into the program who have done at least one deal or a few deals or they've got some experience like you were just saying. But then we started looking at, okay, who are our best clients, who are the majority of our clients in the program? And the majority was people who have never done any deals yet. We can help them get to the point where they do that first deal. Wow. And you know, one way you could look at it as, you know, you want to sell transformation and the biggest transformation you can give somebody is that first deal. I mean, you probably remember your first deal. I remember my first deal, it was changing.

Yassin:
you know, I can give you all the details. Oklahoma city, we made literally $800 on it. Yeah. Yeah. But it was life changing money, wasn't it? I mean, the hope It gives you. It just opens up the door for you. It's like, okay, there is another world out there. Like there's a lot of possibilities. It opens up possibilities for you. so I love it. is there any other questions about the offer I should have asked you about but I didn't or I haven't ?

Blair:
about this new apprentice offer. I just think 7,500$ is too cheap. We'll probably go to 9,800$ sometime soon. And I was talking to another, probably a mutual friend of ours, Joe McCall, and he was like, yeah, dude, you need to go up to 10 grand. Makes sense. We're kind of underselling it right now. So that's the plan anyway, but

Yassin:
it makes sense. Do you have an offer after they finish the apprentice program?

Blair:
That's it. Yeah, that was next thing I was going to mention is the way we set it up and we'd just tell them this on the offer right up front, it's like after this 90 days you've got two options. One, you know, and by the way, our goal with this program is to teach you how to fish. So at the end of the 90 days you should be able to go out on your own If you want to. Or you can stick around with us, we'll just set you up on a $2,000 a month rebill . We'll keep sending you leads at the same rate we have been and we'll keep coaching you and guiding you. But the deal split goes away.

Yassin:
Beautiful. I mean, it's an easy yes, right on going, because you're creating stick, right? When you're giving them the leads, you're creating dependency. I hope it's not coming across like manipulative. It's just, it's very smart and you're saving them the trouble of like testing, marketing, buying lists of scraping, skip tracing, testing, marketing. There's so much that goes into marketing, especially in the competitive market that we're in. so that's brilliant. I love it. And do you have a front end offer or is this the front end offer?

Blair:
This is basically the front end. We've just now started testing out what we would call a low ticket 997$ kinda thing. But what is it like one so far? Yes. And it's a course, it's like a scaled down version, beginner course kind of thing. Makes sense. Yeah. so beautiful. So I love this.

Yassin:
let's dig into the funnel. when I was digging like snooping around and looking at what you're doing, you had like over a hundred ads, I think, when I like went into the Facebook library, it's like this guy is all out. he's got like a hundred ads and you've got one ad that's been running since February, 2019. So the following must be working. and when I click on that, on that link, it took me to a presale website. So, so basically, you want to think of it as a long form sales letter, but it's split into multiple pages. So you know, every click you're getting that micro-commitment. which reminds me of Andre chaperon.

Blair:
thats who taught me.

Yassin:
Oh, beautiful. so you know, they click on the ad, they land on a page, which looks like an article or editorial, and then maybe two or three page. And then they click next and then they go to the next page and then there's more content and they click next. And like there's seven pages unfilled. There's like a call to action and you're not collecting the email upfront, right? So you're doing a lot of pre-qualifications. So instead of me, you know, why don't I let the expert talk about it. So walk me through what you've got going on with your presale funnel on why did you decide to go from $1 million webinar funnel, to a strategy session. So can you just walk us through your old funnel that made you $1 million and the new iteration and why did you decide to make that change?

Blair:
Yeah, so the old funnel was like I said before, the typical webinar to a strategy session, but we kind of modified it and the way we modified it was instead of sending people directly to a webinar registration page, we send them to actual, medium.com article. And that's the ad that's been running the longest. And the article is basically why I don't do wholesaling and rehabbing. Right. So it's like different, it's, you know, it's got a good hook or just, you know, pattern interrupt, I guess I should say. It's probably the better term. They'd go to that pre-sale preframe article before they get to the webinar registration. So that helps. And then between the webinar, which at the end of the webinar is a call to action to a strategy call between that webinar and the actual application and scheduler is what we call our pre-call video.

Blair:
And it's a 35 minute video, which presales our offer, number one doesn't tell the price though, but it anchors a higher price than what it is and it just explains the whole offer. That's our old pipeline program. And I just go like very like, I don't know what the right word is, but just everyday guy, like not slick at all, just showing you here's what I'm doing in my business now, here's what our offer looks like, here's exactly what you see and get and all that sort of average Joe. Yeah. Average Joe. Yeah, this is, so just to recap because sometimes, my brain doesn't process, as fast as yours, so you kind of need to dumb it down for me a little bit. So yeah, you've got a Facebook ad going to a medium.com articles.

Yassin:
It's an independent website where people publish blog posts. Yeah. You, you've got no control of that website other than publishing an article. And that in that article you have a call to action to register for a webinar. So Facebook ad medium article that sends them to a landing page where they register for a webinar, is it on demand webinar or is it like, okay on demand webinar. And then from the on demand webinar you take them to an application page, where you have a 30 minute presale video to kind of anchor and pre-frame them and overcome some objections ahead of time and to make your salespeople you know, make their lives easier. And then they scheduled an appointment with your people and then they close them. is it a two step close or two cold close or is it a one cold close? Do you guys do qualification first and then you hand it off to a closer or do you do it all in one, step?

Blair:
Yeah, so it's all one step, but the majority of the time it takes more than one phone call with the person. Okay. Yeah. But it's technically it would be a one step sale, beautiful system.

Yassin:
And to dial in this webinar funnel to a strategy and to get it to producing a $1 million. what were some of your biggest lessons iterating on this funnel and getting it to work and produce? I'm assuming, you know, it hopefully made you some money. I know Facebook ads are only getting more expensive. so, if you could share like, you know, the top three lessons learned testing and rolling out a high ticket cold traffic webinar funnel into a strategy session.

Blair:
Yeah. You know, let's see. The first big lesson I learned was about your conversion rate; you have more effect on your conversion rate on the sales call by all the marketing you do before the sales call as opposed to the sales person's skills on the phone. The sale happened before the call, not on the call. Pretty much more or less. Yeah. So it's more important to drive qualified prospects into that call than it is to have some hardcore closer on the phone. you see what I mean?

Yassin:
Why is that? Wouldn't you rather like get more leads and like, have a super star close them and

Blair:
maybe we could, and we tried a much shorter funnel at one point. Like they would just opt in for a free lead magnet and then we invite them to a call, that sucked. I mean, that was horrible. Like I was hating life when we were doing that. I'm not even doing the calls. I was still was hating life because the sales guys were like complaining, you know? Yeah. I mean, you know, we've got a great team. Like they weren't complaining,but they were like struggling, you know, and not for any lack of skill on their part, but it's like when you get on the phone with somebody who has no frame, you know, no context. Yeah. All that stuff. So I also reached out to, and

Blair:
I don't actually know him that well. I just follow him online. But you know Ryan Stewman of hardcore closeup guy and he had, I just remember this cause he had like a ask me anything on Facebook and I just said, what's more important qualified prospects on the phone or sales skills? He said if you want shit ball clients, your sales skills are more important. If you want good clients, it's your qualified prospects. Huge, huge lesson.

Yassin:
So lesson number one, presale, presale, presale a and presell more because you have a really long funnel over there with a lot of drop off. I'm not going to even ask you your cost per application, but it's probably no less than two or $300 per application. All right? Yup. Yup. Still. Okay, cool. so what is lesson number two?

Yassin:
Oh man, I had one earlier. I'm trying to think of what it was. So why the medium article? Why not send them to your website or deliver the article in the Facebook ad itself? So why do you send them to medium.com weird, you know, I should, that you lose the tracking because it's the third website you don't have tracking on that side. So tell me a little bit about that.

Blair:
Yeah. And I've talked to other marketers and they're like, man, why would you do that? You can't pixel them if they hit your page and all that stuff. And yeah, exactly what you were just saying. And I thought through all that, the reason we keep it now is because it's working and it's like don't friggin touch the thing that's working. All right. Don't mess with it. So that's why we keep it now. But in the beginning, the idea was

Blair:
maybe I can create a little more credibility and or trust or lower their defenses a little bit by being on a third party site that maybe they've, maybe they would recognize medium.com maybe they wouldn't. Most people that we talked to, they don't like read on medium.com all the time. But it's a very legitimate looking website, right? Like, it's like it's real deal website. It's not just some guy's blog, you know? Yep. Yep. So that was the reason. And that just taken me back to , ever listen to Frank Kern way back in the day? He talked about the triangle of trust and it was basically his whole thing was, you know, when you email somebody, your call to action, don't say here, go click on my sales page. Say Here go click online new blog post, which is, you know, advertorial essentially with a call to action at the end. So I dunno, that kind of played into it as well.

Yassin:
Beautiful. Beautiful. Any other lessons learned on the Facebook ad side, on the show up rate ? because I know there's a big drop off between someone who registers for the webinar or for the strategy session. so have you guys done any split testing on that ?

Blair:
you know, the, we didn't have the pre-call video at first and the guys were struggling. I remember the other thing I was gonna tell you, one of the big lessons was that, I'm trying to think of the best way to put it. You know, Todd Brown talks about like the big marketing idea. Yup. I think it's your big idea that makes the biggest difference in how you do in your business. Interesting. and if you ever, like if you read into his stuff and he's up with the agora guys and they're all talking about this and Andre talks about this. And that big idea, I think as Joe Schriefer somebody down in agora chief, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, you need an idea that's so good that it doesn't matter what the copy is. Attention arresting. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And so for us it was that hook of basically going against the, the norm right now. The big thing right now is wholesale virtual, controversial. Yeah. Let's sell against that. And that was something said by rod Shiffrin , I heard him say, he's like, whatever is like your hot offer out in your marketplace right now. If you just sell against that, you're making an enemy out of it, yeah, yeah.

Yassin:
Blair Warren,right? you know, the seven sentence persuasion I guess is right through throw rocks at their enemies, right? That's how you develop rapport, persuade someone, is you create a common enemy and get on their side of the table and put the honest on something else outside of them. Say, Hey, you saw, you don't know how to sell you to know how to market. Right? That's why you're not getting deals. Well, no, it's because of the model. and it just opens them up. and especially if you're the first one to bring this concept forward. Now you've, like, you've gained their full attention and you've got all this authority and credibility and they're just going to listen to you. Right? So you've created kind of like your own pond or your own blue ocean influence, right? Yep. Yep. Beautiful. I love that. So then, so if it's working well, why the heck did you change it?Find Matt million dollars, you know, it's not like some small change. So why did you even change it ?

Blair:
Well, okay, I believe that nothing is going to keep working forever. So you gotta be ready for when that day comes, when this particular webinar or strategy call or whatever, when that stops working, you got to have the next thing ready to go. So the multi page presale site, we've only been running that maybe a month, right? So it's fairly new, but it's already producing return on ad spend for us. Primarily, I think is because the offers so good, like the apprentice offer, it's a killer offer, right? So, you know, we could probably sell that offer through webinar or multi-page pre-sale, YouTube, whatever it all leads back to that offer. You know, here I am quoting Frank Kern again, but I think he was quoting Dan Kennedy when he said it's the offer stupid. Like you just like, it's all about the offer, right?

Blair:
So if you've got a good offer, you know, sell it whichever way you want. But, so I'm always testing out new funnels, new ways to get people and qualified prospects onto the phone and that sort of thing. I got Andre Chaperon's course sphere of influence. That's where the multipage presale site comes from. And one thing I realized about myself is that I feel like, you know, I would never call myself a copywriter, but I prefer writing to making webinars and videos. I don't do a whole lot of videos and you know, all that stuff. I prefer sitting down and writing cause I can formulate my thoughts better and I feel like I can communicate better that way. So if that's my strength, I want to build on that strength. And one way to do that for a person who likes writing is that multi-phase presale site.

Yassin:
Beautiful. Yep. And can you just walk us through real quick, the like the whole funnel. maybe I'll do a, an article if it's okay with you just to frisking down the funnel you've got, this such an interesting model. Could you just walk us through real quick through that funnel for the multi page pre-sale? Yes, please.

Blair:
Yeah. So they hit the landing page and it looks like, I mean, and so now I use ClickFunnels, right? And I've been using click funnels, but what I mean is instead of using medium.com now I just built out a site in click funnels that just looks exactly like medium.com essentially. Right? But it's my own brand and that's my own site so I can track it. All right. So then they get to the landing page, it tells them, you know, basically like sells them on the idea of our new method.

Blair:
You know, you're talking about like the new model and the flip-skimming method. Yes. Right. So we'd come up with our own proprietary terminology. Unique mechanism. Yes. Your unique mechanism. And then under that unique mechanism, you've got all these new, you know, give them a new dictionary. Right? And so we have like, you know, all our different proprietary terms, like the white coat effect or the reverse offer strategy or the transactional engineer marketing process, all that stuff. Right? So, but they hit that Lander and then they scroll down to the end and it's like, look, if you want all these benefits that I just laid out to you and you want to avoid all the pains that I know you're going through, there's three key shifts you need to make. Keep reading, find out shift number one, and they click and they go to the next page and now the reading about shift number one at the end of that page is like click here to keep reading shift number two, shift number three.

Blair:
So it's almost like you're going through a webinar except you're reading through it and you're clicking through it. Right. And you can measure engagement just the same as you can on a webinar. You can track who hits what page, obviously. Yeah, right. It's easier to iterate, to change, like see where the drop off and alter copy. Yes. That's the big thing for me. If I go make a video or a webinar, I mean it's like I got to go reshoot the whole thing if I want to change. If it's not modular. Yeah. Typically you can just change the lead or the offer. It's like you could download to three section, the webinar lead and the actual content and then the close. So it's very hard to test it. Okay. Yeah, exactly. So at the end of this four page sequence, we're testing out a few different ways to go after that.

Blair:
One of them is, you know, click here to see how we work with clients, helping them implement the flipped skimming method. And then they read a Lander, which is basically showing them like how we work with clients. It doesn't tell them pricing or anything, but it says, we send Leads, we work with you, we guarantee you get a deal, fill out this application and we'll be in touch by SMS text message. Basically you give them the entire offer, but the pricing, so they've got no objection by the time, well, very few objections. They know what they're getting. No question. Right. So that's a tended close probably. Yeah, that'd be cool.

Blair:
what we then do, once they fill out the application that comes into, we use a web app called text line. And that helps us do SMS texts with them. And we just basically do pre-qualification via text message and as manual. Interesting. Yeah. This is new. This is what we're testing out now. I don't know if we're going to keep doing this, so we close anywhere from 2000$ sale to a 5000 dollar sale over email, live chat and SMS. so you're on the right track, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like I'm late to the party. We'll talk about that. I want to talk about right message at right time, when we finish talking about this particular funnel cause I think that's very important. but yeah, we prequalify them and then if they, you know, if they're motivated to get their business up and running and they got money for our thing and we'll have them schedule a call and get on the phone with the sales guys.

Blair:
If they're motivated but they don't have money, then we send them to an automated down sell product. That's that 997 course I told me about. We just just started doing that. But I see a lot of promise for that. Even if all it ever does was just pay for our ad spend. In other words, it helps break us even with the ad spend. Yup. Yeah, yeah. Then I'd be happy with it, but beautiful. But the other thing we're testing is instead of filling out an application and then qualifying by text message is would just go straight to the hole. Like all the details of the program. We tell the pricing, we tell everything and then submit an application to get on the phone. So we skipped the text message part cause we gave them all the info and the only reason they're applying is because they got the money, they want this, they know everything about it and then they go on the signup call.

Yassin:
All right, so are you getting any takes on it?

Blair:
So that's what we're working on. We had this landing page, where we were sending cold traffic directly to the apprentice offer cause it's such a great offer. Let's just send them directly to the offer. Yeah. That didn't work. Yeah. So the idea is, well, what if we just put this multipage presale site in front of the offer, right. You know, and then run cold traffic through to that. But even then if they fill out the app, one of the questions on there is do you have the $7,500 fee? And people still apply and they say no. And so we just kick them back automatically and then send them to the downsale. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, people don't have money for a program, they have money for.

Yassin:
Right. quitting their job. They have money for seeing back home and cutting their outcomes. Right? No. Well, well, what I'm trying to say is people don't buy products, they buy outcome. When you tell someone, Hey, do you have money for a program? No I don't have money for another program. right. So, so people buy outcome, they don't buy, products, which is why in our messaging, a lot of time when we were going back and forth over text message or email or live chat, we get people's currency to ask them like, what has your reaching out for help? Why is now the right time for you? And then we take that and then mirror it back in the entire sales conversation. We never, we almost never bring up the product. We don't even use. Hey. do you have any questions about program?

Yassin:
No, no, no, no. We say, do you have any questions about your currency? Whatever that is. Hey, did you have any questions about getting more deals so you can quit your job? Yeah. Because when you talk about the program, where is their focus ? on the program. Yeah. No one wants a program. Yeah. But yeah, so, so that's awesome. we're, we're getting close to the end here. So you said you wanted to talk about the right message at the right time. I'd love to hear more, more about your take on this.

Blair:
Yeah, there's a marketing friend of mine, Gary Henderson, great guy, he's, you guys should check him out. But his whole thing is right message to the right audience at the right time. And you know, he's not the only one out there. There's company, you know, web apps now I think one called right message, you know, and type form I think is kind of playing into this as well and Intercom and all those guys. But the whole idea is like,

Blair:
you know, obviously if you just say the same thing to everybody, you're going to get so much results, but if you can tailor your message and segment your audience and slice and dice them, you know, a thousand ways, you're going to make that much more out of them. You see what I mean? Absolutely.

Yassin:
I mean, in my early days getting into the online marketing space, I work with Ryan Laveck for like two or three years together and built a really big business. And the core of what we do is segmentation at the top of the funnel. So when someone opts in, we have questions in there, like a quiz, that they go through, and they basically pre-select . What's your number one biggest challenge right now? What are you using right now as alternative? And then we take all that data and pass it on to our email auto-respond sequence or to the sales page.

Yassin:
And we personalize our messaging. We 80/20 it, of course we don't like, you know, so like 80% of the messages, the same, just 20% for personalization. And dude, I mean, as close as it gets to having a life salesperson talking to you. Because really what we're doing with online marketing is just scaling a live salesperson, right? They're thinking that live salesperson conversation and translate it as much as we can, with our funnels and whatnot. And the more we can personalize things and speak directly to the different people or different pockets or different segments in our audience, the higher our conversions is going to be. So, so how are you using that right now? So are you doing any segmentation right now?

Blair:
Yeah, so what we do is we have a, an app that actually, taps into their webcam and scans their retina so that we know exactly who they are. Is that CIA kind of thing. No, it was from that movie minority report.

Blair:
The guy is like, you know, Tom cruise, like walking down the shopping mall and all of these banner ads pop up and they scan who he is and they show an ad just for him. Crazy. That's what we're trying to do, you know, without being creepy like that. I mean, this is the idea, right? We're not there yet. I don't think we're there or I'm not there anyway.

Yassin:
Maybe somebody is, but let's say he says, obviously this is a joke, but like, yeah, you freaked me out. It's like scanning my face, block the camp. Oh, so cool dude. Um, and so my last question to you is about traffic channels. obviously channels change every day. Policies gets updated, more competition. you know, the hay days of Facebook ads where you can get, you know, clicks for pennies on the dollar is gone.

Yassin:
and they're more stricter on direct response marketing and claims and shutting down accounts. You know, they don't talk to you even or customer support. So tell me a little bit about the traffic channels, is facebook your main traffic source or what's going on?

Blair:
Yeah, Facebook is our main source right now and I mean, if I'm being really honest, it's our only source other than we do some retargeting on GDN and that sort of thing. But that's very small compared to what we spend on Facebook. And that's the kind of thing that kinda keeps me up at night a little bit is like, you know, they banned crypto guys. What if they come in and ban real estate guys? Totally. You know what I mean? Like you're out of business unless you got a backup plan. So I was just talking to another marketing friend of mine before this call and talking about how like, you know, Facebook, you know, in, in this guy's opinion, all the traffic you get on Facebook is essentially warm traffic.

Blair:
Like, yeah, we, we talk about it's cold, but if you look at the big picture, it's actually fairly warm traffic because you've got all these lookalike audiences and that sort of thing, right? So they're shown ads to people who have already indicated an interest in ads like yours, right? It's all that sort of thing. Compare that to like going to, you know, GDN or Taboola or Outbrain and all those sort of things that's cold. Like that's like mass market stuff. So how do you speak to those people in an effective way to get them into your funnel and let your multi page presale or your content filter them out? Right? So that's the thing that's on my mind lately is how do I, you know, wean myself off of Facebook, not because I don't want to use Facebook, but because I don't want that to be my only thing.

Blair:
And Perry Marshall talks about this, if you ever read his book, 80 20 sales and marketing. Yep. Dude, I've read that book like once a year. Like I love it. I think it's on my bookshelf right back there. So he was on that job or life stream with Richard a couple days ago. Yeah. Yup. So one of the things he talks about is, you know, obviously we've got to harness 80 20 but if you and you know you want to like do multiple versions of the app, so like 80 20 of the 80 20 of the 80 20 right? Yup. The problem is if you go too far down that hole, so for example, then you just start saying that, okay, this one traffic source for example, Facebook is like the 99 to one. So I'm just gonna do that thing. The problem is now you've got a single point of failure in your whole system.

Blair:
Totally right. So you still gotta diversify. Okay, well 80 20 but still diversify.

Yassin:
If you don't mind me asking, like what's the range of what you're spending on Facebook right now? Like, you know, 10 to 50,000, 50,000 to a hundred thousand a month. It kind of goes up and down. We're anywhere from anywhere from 20 to 30,000$. Okay. And, and so your, your goal is to break even. do you have like seven day, like the Ross ROI, like return on ad spend? do you like, so what's your cash flow? Or like how do you manage your ad spend?

Blair:
Yeah, so I check in on the sheet,

Yassin:
especially you don't have a front end offer.

Blair:
our front end is our high ticket thing. Right. So that's the scary part.

Blair:
Like, you know, when we were just starting out, there's a lag time between when you put money out on ads and then you get it back in revenue. Right? Yeah. You know, that's why you start slowly, you don't start at 30 grand a month, obviously, so, but then you grow and grow and grow. And I mean like if you had told me a year ago, we'd be at 30 grand a month, I believe. Wow. Really like no way. How could we do this? Like, cause we're only spending 10 back then. You know what I mean? Right. It just kinda keeps growing and I just look at a couple of KPIs, some of the leading indicators obviously cost per lead and cost per call, that sort of thing. Okay. But cause I know that if I can get somebody through the funnel onto the phone, we're going to close them 20 or 30% of the time.

Blair:
And what is that life cycle like? So like from a click to close, what is that time frame? Five days? 60 days? Yeah. I mean like if we jumped up ad spend today, we would see an influx of leads, but we wouldn't see an influx of applications for another week. and then after that we wouldn't see an influx of sales for like three more weeks sometimes. So call it a month or more before you can see the effect. That's was the frustrating and challenging part is like, you know, you do this thing where you scale up your ads and you're like, is this thing gonna work and we won't know for a month. Right.

Yassin:
Especially if you're testing out the front door, right? Yeah. If you're testing anything inside of the funnel, like also this gives you, because you want to tie it back to conversions, do you have like offline conversions all set up and like tracked in Facebook because there's only 28 day window, right. And then you lose that tracking.

Blair:
Yeah. So the, you know, we, we track our stats globally, on our own Excel sheet. Hey, you don't need all the like wicked reports or something. Do you use, what's that? Wicked reports or like some tracking shots manual. Yeah, man, I looked into like all that stuff and I was like, let me just keep doing it like this for now. Maybe there's a better option someday, but yeah, you know, my hands are and eyes are on the numbers almost every day and I think that's what it takes to like get the thing up and running. Eventually delegate that obviously, but

Blair:
nothing like in good old spreadsheets. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You always go back to it.

Yassin:
Well, beautiful. Um, is there anything else that I should have asked you about? I haven't, that you think would be important for the audience to know about what you've got going on and scaling, you know, to seven figures or multiple seven figures with cold traffic because you don't do JV traffic, you don't do like, you know, it's primarily ice cold traffic. You don't do outbound prospecting, channel partners, all of that. Right. You focus on primarily your cold traffic.

Blair:
Yeah. Yeah. Facebook ad into our funnel, whichever funnel they come into. Okay. Yeah. And you know, as long as we're capturing their email at a decent cost per lead, let's say this new funnel on testing doesn't convert, they're still in the system. They're going to get recycled through every promo and offer we ever have. You know what I mean? Right. So I forgot what I was going to say, but while you're remembering where,

Yassin:
what kind of role does email play in that funnel? Do you, do you think it's important?

Yassin:
Yeah, I think it's very important. What's the frequency of emails that you guys send?

Blair:
I mean, it starts out like once a day, sometimes two times a day, and then it'll slow down. Like we've got like this big long nurture sequence. It's like six months long. Wow. I'll start out pretty frequent and then kinda go once a week and that sort of thing. And then, you know, inside that time frame. And by the way, if they get to the end of that, we just restart it cause I'm lazy intersperse through there. There's other like time-sensitive promos that we'll do and we just do it, run them evergreen. Yep. So like a countdown sequence to this or that or whatever and that sort of thing. But I think email is like, I mean that's, you know, it's like they always say that the Fortune's in the followup.

Blair:
That's where the email comes in. You know, most sales that we get are not, you know, guy comes watches our webinars signs up the next day for our program, most of the time that does not happen. So you gotta be able to follow up with them. And our sales guys do an awesome job with manual followup with the guys that they've spoken to on the phone. Plus they're getting all the emails from our system, you know, in that whole sequence. So we just stay in front of them. And I remember hearing Frank Kern talk about, you know, I know I keep mentioning him, I just saw him at funnel hacking live though. Yeah. And sat with him at his table that, you know, I remember him before talking about like, you know, some, somebody had asked him, you know, how often should I be emailing people? And he said, dude, if you're not getting regular complaints from people about you emailing them too much, you're not doing it enough. Every time you want to make money,

Yassin:
right. Send emails mean. Yeah. Well, Larry, this has been an awesome, interview, at least for me. I hope, the viewers, also extracted some gold nuggets in there. I think you're doing some unique stuff. I haven't seen a presale funnel yet in the industry. so it's interesting to see.

Blair:
That's part of the reason I'm doing it is cause nobody else is doing it. That's the whole point. You gotta be different, beautiful and right, right.

Blair:
You know, being different. it's all about being different, being better, right? People, you know, or at least the pattern, right? They get used to the same pattern and they mentally opt out or like a webinar, they know what's coming, they know the drill, right? So you come up with , you know, a different funnel or modality and you just capture that lizard brain, right?

Blair:
It's like, Ooh, something new, something shiny, something different. 

Yassin:
beautiful dude. Well, thank you so much, for coming on the show, which I don't have a name yet for just, you know, conversations with superstars, like yourself and I'm having a blast talking to you and I hope we can, you know, maybe we can do a follow up in a couple of months when you've run enough traffic through the funnel and talk about the learnings that offer. I'm curious to see how the offer works out for you guys. So thank you so much for coming on the show and God bless. Yeah, no, thanks man. Thanks for having me on. Beautiful. 
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